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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 1, 2010 4:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

>the worst man made disaster ever

Chernobyl?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 4:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

most estimates don't put it close to Bhopal in terms of effect on human life (about 100 dead at the accident and sadly several thousand have died of cancer since then). However who knows what is actually correct and what the impact on the environment locally was.

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Poster: utopian Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Check out the 'yes men' on YouTube. They pull corporate hoaxes and fake press releases. One is with Dow chemical , union carbide and the Bhopal disaster.


Corrected death toll From wikipedia-
Estimates vary on the death toll. The official immediate death toll was 2,259 and the government of Madhya Pradesh has confirmed a total of 3,787 deaths related to the gas release.[1] Other government agencies estimate 15,000 deaths.[2] Others estimate that 8,000 died within the first weeks and that another 8,000 have since died from gas-related diseases.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

I used ranges (4000-8000) and carefully worded (up to 25000 overall) in that first post because i found it very difficult to get an accurate number and I think the wiki quote points to that issue. I think part of the problem with the deaths that were not immediately following the gas leak is that the exposure left people immunocompromised and therefore susceptible to infectious diseases. Thus the direct cause of death might not have been gas exposure, however it likely played a significant role in many deaths. I think this is why many sites have inflated the gov't numbers.

In the end it is still a tragedy unlike any we have ever accidentally (negligently) inflicted on ourselves.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

When I said "we have never seen anything like the man (corporate) made environmental disaster in the Gulf.", I was talking about here in the US, not world wide. I should have been more clear on that point.

Here's one example of how "lazy" journalism works. O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, or some other Fox commentator makes a comment. For argument sake let's say it is the Obama's Katrina comment (I don't know if this particular comment originated there or not).

1) Hannity says it on his show.
2) O'Reilly repeats it.
3) A couple of hours later, Fox News reports that "people" are calling this Obama's Katrina.

Are they? Well, yeah, I guess you could say that they are people, but this is an insidious and underhanded way to turn editorial commentary into News. It's all done in house, and it's done by a "News" organization to further a political point of view.

Other "News" outlets, i.e. CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post et al pick up on this and don't really do any research (LAZY), or they see it as a catchall phrase that encapsulates the issue into a soundbite that we, the great unwashed, can understand, all of a sudden it's a legitimate viewpoint that is viewed as conventional wisdom.

Does this happen on the left as well? I'm sure it does. The difference is that Fox is so huge, that they can steer the debate and influence the result.

Shame on any News organization (Left or Right) that manufactures the News or becomes part of the News. Shame on any organisation that repeats the "News" without properly researching it.

Henry Mencken (thanks for the correction Bluedevil) said: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people".

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-06-01 20:21:39

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Mencken

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

You're right! That's what I get for "Lazy typing". I didn't proof read my rant. It's kind of pathetic because the "N" button isn't even that close to the "L" button.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

No biggie - just want people to know who to look for. Love some of his writings.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

"Shame on any News organization (Left or Right) that manufactures the News or becomes part of the News. Shame on any organisation that repeats the "News" without properly researching it."

Amen.

So I was listening this morning to NPR and was surprised to learn that this isn't even the biggest oil spill to have occurred in the Gulf. Apparently there was a 3.5 million gallon spill near Mexico. Sadly if the latest estimates are correct and that this thing won't be fixed until August, this one will surpass that and then your statement, which i misinterpreted (sorry) will indeed be correct.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

I hate that quote by Mencken . Nose in the air , elitist fuck . He should have been so glad to live in the US during his time , then say Russia or China . Then again , maybe he would have fit right in . From Pasternaks' Dr. Zhivago , I can see Mencken roaring down the track in his red train , like Strelnikov .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 21:07:27

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

How was he wrong? Or how wrong is this phrase:
"In the end, Americans get the government they deserve."

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Granted , he was a prolific and complicated man . I particularly dislike that quote and the mind set behind the words . Things that raise an eyebrow - His belief in a ' natural aristocracy ' . His love of Nietzsche , including writing the forward to his book , The Anti - Christ . He wrote this little douzy there , " Here the intellectual cynicism of the Jew almost counter - balances his social unpleasantness . " His disdain for the masses who were not part of the ' natural aristocracy " , of which that quote you quoted is a prime example . ( I'm a quote , your a quote , wouldn't ya like to be a quote , too )

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 22:23:21

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

No doubt he was a raging anti-semite.

On totally different tangent, David Brooks had intersting op-ed in NY Times re how this is not Obama's Katrina, and I thought his analysis was pretty right on:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 31, 2010
The Oil Plume
By DAVID BROOKS
The failure of the top-kill technique in the Gulf of Mexico represents an interesting turning point on the Obama presidency. It symbolizes the end of the period of lightning advance and the beginning of the period of nasty stasis.

President Obama swept into office having aroused the messianic hopes of his supporters. For the past 16 months he has been on nearly permanent offense, instigating action with the stimulus bill, Afghan policy, health care reform and the nearly complete financial reform. Whether you approve or not, this has been an era of bold movement.

But now the troops are exhausted, the country is anxious, the money is spent and the Democratic majorities are teetering. The remaining pieces of legislation, on immigration and energy, are going nowhere. (The decision to do health care before energy is now looking extremely unfortunate.)

Meanwhile, the biggest problems are intractable. There’s no sign we will be successful in preventing a nuclear Iran. Especially after Monday’s events, there’s no chance of creating a breakthrough in the Arab-Israeli dispute. Unemployment will not be coming down soon. The long-term fiscal crisis won’t be addressed soon either.

In other words, if the theme of the past 16 months was large change, the theme of the next period will be gridlock and government’s apparent impotence in the face of growing problems.

And, at this particular moment, we are confronted by the picture of an uncontrolled gusher of oil spewing destruction into the gulf. This image could be with us for another few months, searing into the national consciousness and becoming the defining image of 2010.

Everybody is comparing the oil spill to Hurricane Katrina, but the real parallel could be the Iranian hostage crisis. In the late 1970s, the hostage crisis became a symbol of America’s inability to take decisive action in the face of pervasive problems. In the same way, the uncontrolled oil plume could become the objective correlative of the country’s inability to govern itself.

The plume taps into a series of deep anxieties. First, it taps into the anxiety that the people running our major institutions are just not that competent. Second, it feeds into the anxiety that there has been an unhappy marriage between corporations and government officials, which has had the effect of corrupting both. Most important, the plume exposes the country’s core confusion about the role of government.

When this country was born, the founders laid down strict roles for the federal government and the president. But over the years, the roles of government and the presidency have expanded.

As a matter of conviction, the country is deeply uncomfortable with these expansions. Operationally, on the other hand, the country has become accustomed to the new programs and to the new presidential role.

In times of crisis, you get a public reaction that is incoherence on stilts. On the one hand, most people know that the government is not in the oil business. They don’t want it in the oil business. They know there is nothing a man in Washington can do to plug a hole a mile down in the gulf.

On the other hand, they demand that the president “take control.” They demand that he hold press conferences, show leadership, announce that the buck stops here and do something. They want him to emote and perform the proper theatrical gestures so they can see their emotions enacted on the public stage.

They want to hold him responsible for things they know he doesn’t control. Their reaction is a mixture of disgust, anger, longing and need. It may not make sense. But it doesn’t make sense that the country wants spending cuts and doesn’t want cuts, wants change and doesn’t want change.

At some point somebody’s going to have to reach a national consensus on the role of government. If this disaster teaches anything, it is that we are a venturesome, entrepreneurial society. We rely on corporations like BP to bring us energy. At the same time, it is clear that even well-meaning corporations sometimes take shortcuts when it comes to controlling pollution and protecting worker safety.

So we want government to regulate business. We want regulation to be strong enough to reduce risk but not so strong as to stifle innovation. We want regulators to work cooperatively but not be captured by those they monitor.

We have known, for a long time, that regulation is about balance. The proper regulatory regime has to be set case by case and year by year.

We should be able to build from cases like this one and establish a set of concrete understandings about what government should and shouldn’t do. We should be able to have a grounded conversation based on principles 95 percent of Americans support. Yet that isn’t happening. So the period of stagnations begins.




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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

You ever notice nobody compares any disaster to the Good Friday Massacre of 1984 between the Montreal Canadiens and the Quebec Nordiques?

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

The USA is the greatest civilization (or whatever word you would like to insert, call it an experiment for all I care) ever known to human kind, and imo will always be, hence its extremely intelligent populace gets the govt it wants.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Hey, hey, hey ...
Give the people what they want

Well, it's been said before, the world is a stage
A different performance with every age.
Open up the history book to any old page
Bring on the lions and open the cage.

Give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
The more they get, the more they need
And every time they get harder and harder to please

The Roman promoters really did things right.
They needed a show that would clearly excite.
The attendance was sparse so they put on a fight
Threw the Christians to the lions, sold out every night

Give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
The more they get, the more they need
And every time they get harder and harder to please

Give 'em lots of sex, perversion and rape
Give 'em lots of violence, and plenty to hate
Give the people what they want
Give the people what they want

Hey, hey, hey ...

When Oswald shot Kennedy, he was insane
But still we watch the re-runs again and again
We all sit glued while the killer takes aim

"Hey Mom, there goes a piece of the president's brain!"

Give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
Blow out your brains, and do it right
Make sure it's prime time and on a Saturday night.

You gotta give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
Give the people what they want
Give the people what they want
Give the people what they want

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGcwpJgge6g

Elitist British wanker....

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

we "deserve" Enron, we deserve the S&L debacle, we deserve to be lied into war ?, we deserve the the housing collaspe, the job losses, the lies ??

No we don't.... I would have loved to be born in New Zealand?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Hey, watched the Enron doc last night "Smartest Guys in the Room". Very well done. And very distrubing. Mark to market accounting....

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

bobs shorts?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

bobs shorts = jerry's altamont?